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Kateangel
10 May 2010 18:39
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Hi, I have an ex racer who is 4 years old. She is very easy to do and a pleasure. However, when I went to try her she had a thick single jointed snaffle and was tossing her head and tongue over bit.
Since getting her home I have changed the bit to a lozenge copper full cheek snaffle that is thinner (her tongue is large). She lunges fine in it, but any contact through long reins or ridden on a loose rein and she tosses and tries to put her tongue over the bit.
Her teeth were checked recently are ok. Any advice welcome. Thank you
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Horse Hero Guru
10 May 2010 20:10
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Hi Kateangel
I am glad that you have changed your horse’s bit. Many people use a thick bit thinking it is kinder, forgetting that there has to be room in the horse’s mouth for the bit.
If your mare is only four, she is still a baby. She may well have been broken early, but her training will have been to one end only – to get her racing. That means that she will not have been mouthed properly and may well have picked up the habit of avoiding the bit by getting her tongue over it. You are right to take her back to basics and to re-introduce the bit to get her accepting it nicely.
It goes without saying that you must make sure that the bit fits your mare and that you have it adjusted so that it does not hang too low in her mouth – it is better to have it too high rather than too low at present. I suggest that you long rein her in her bridle with a cavesson over the top (or, if you are feeling good, try the cavesson on sale on this site, which looks wonderful) and long rein from the cavesson noseband rather than the bit. Working like that will enable your mare to settle with the bit yet still be long reined. You can then begin to use the bit rather than the cavesson.
I am not a fan of riding on a loose reins, nor of a strong contact – when your is being ridden you should always have a light contact on her mouth so that you are in control of the situation. The contact should be light though – imagine your reins are made of thin thread. Maintaining this sort of contact will allow your mare to keep the bit comfortably in her mouth and will help her develop a steady carriage. If you want her to work long and low you should still have a contact – she should be reaching down to it rather than you just hurling loops of rein at her.
Good luck – I am sure that you will turn your mare in to a lovely riding horse.
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Kateangel
10 May 2010 21:51
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Thank you, hadn't thought of longreining from the cavesson! Will try that tomorrow. Got a new bit to try too when it arrives and I completely agree about long rein and short rein riding. I think she is evading the tongue pressure, so am going to try a bit without tongue pressure.
Thank you very much for your help
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Horse Hero Guru
10 May 2010 21:53
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It is a pleasure - let me know how you get on
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somerainbow
11 May 2010 09:35
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"Hi Kateangel
I am glad that you have changed your horse’s bit. Many people use a thick bit thinking it is kinder, forgetting that there has to be room in the horse’s mouth for the bit.
If your mare is only four, she is still a baby. She may well have been broken early, but her training will have been to one end only – to get her racing. That means that she will not have been mouthed properly and may well have picked up the habit of avoiding the bit by getting her tongue over it. You are right to take her back to basics and to re-introduce the bit to get her accepting it nicely.
It goes without saying that you must make sure that the bit fits your mare and that you have it adjusted so that it does not hang too low in her mouth – it is better to have it too high rather than too low at present. I suggest that you long rein her in her bridle with a cavesson over the top (or, if you are feeling good, try the cavesson on sale on this site, which looks wonderful) and long rein from the cavesson noseband rather than the bit. Working like that will enable your mare to settle with the bit yet still be long reined. You can then begin to use the bit rather than the cavesson.
I am not a fan of riding on a loose reins, nor of a strong contact – when your is being ridden you should always have a light contact on her mouth so that you are in control of the situation. The contact should be light though – imagine your reins are made of thin thread. Maintaining this sort of contact will allow your mare to keep the bit comfortably in her mouth and will help her develop a steady carriage. If you want her to work long and low you should still have a contact – she should be reaching down to it rather than you just hurling loops of rein at her.
Good luck – I am sure that you will turn your mare in to a lovely riding horse.
"
Hi Kateangel
As someone who has reschooled an ex racer who had similar issues with head tossing in the beginning, the only thing i would add is that the musculature she currently has will have been developed to carry her in straight lines, with no contact at high speed,and she is still a baby - so whilst some of it can be an evasion, sometimes it can just be that she is being asked to use her topline muscles in her new job, which by definition will not be very well developed, so some of it can be a reaction to muscle fatigue - if you were suddenly asked to hold a 2 kilo dumbell in a bicep curl for 10 minutes, one of teh first things you would want to do is shake your arm about to relieve teh tension! On that basis - paricularly in ridden work, if she does toss her head, you need to ride her forward from your leg, using passive resistance so she eventually learns that to carry her head correctly is the most comforable place for her, and ensure you give her plenty of breaks to enable her to stretch, before her muscles reach the point of fatigue. In addition, lots of transitions will help her engage her abdominal and back muscles, which over time will help build her topline muscles and shift her centre of gravity further back. And the other key thing is to keep sessions short in the beginning. In my experience it does take lots of time & patience- probably in my mare's case about 9- 10 months - but when I got my first placing in a dressage competition - it's all worth it!Im a huge fan of ex racers, because once youve got the reschooling sorted they are great - because of what theyve done in the past. Good luck!
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joallan
12 May 2010 07:40
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Some suggestions ..... you could try a happy mouth straight bar snaffle, this is as mild as they come and has a nice flavour.
You could also try giving a little wet mash feed with the bit in, thus making it a pleasure, is she fussy to put a bit in or out of her mouth, be very gentle, you could smear bit with honey ... this may be going too far, or maybe not.
I have successfully used a lozenge bit with aurigon on five youngsters, after starting with a happy mouth, also a nylon happy mouth jointed snaffle with a roller for a short time, this lets the horse play with the bit, you will know when things are working when she has a nice wet mouth when ridden.
Allow her to eat a little grass as you are out riding, this may get her to move the bit in her mouth and distract her.
In racing some horses learn to put the tongue over the bit so that the rider loses control, some trainers use an australian noseband, which is a rubber affair, which comes down the front of the face, and splits at the nose to attach to the bit, it lifts the bit in the mouth and prevents the horse from puting its tongue over the bit, it has absolutely no effect on the severity of the bit.
Also racehorse trainers always use a running martingale not to tie them down but to prevent excess movement of the head, the neckstrap is used to prevent the rider jabbing the horse in the mouth and to help the rider stay in place.
Keep going with the long reining, use cavesson with a bit in the mouth, she will have to learn to live with it or you will need to go to a bitless bridle eventually.
Check her gums every day as her teeth will be a big issue at this age, she is obviously not one to "live with it"
Most flat horses are backed and ridden away in about three weeks, they are not given much help with "mouthing"
I would never use fixed sidereins when lungeing because they force an outline, but have used sliding sidereins, one long piece of cord fixed at the D's and looped between the legs. Used for a short time only they allow the horse to relax and submit to a light contact on the bit, any head tossing will make her more uncomfortable. This could be used once she is going well in the long reins under cavesson, then try the sliding long reins to take up the contact on the bit.
Remember that at the age of four she may have had quite a few unpleasant experiences, so check her every day for any heat in the legs and stiffness of the muscles.
I have put in lots of ideas, you should not change things every day!
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brammers
23 Dec 2010 15:52
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Her teeth were checked recently are ok. Any advice welcome. Thank you"
When her teeth were checked, how thorough was the dentist? Did he/she use a mouth gag and torch to thoroughly inspect the entire mouth, including cheeks, gums, tongue and palate? Did they palpate the bars of the mouth where the bit lies? Impacted wolf teeth can be completely unseen, yet cause a lot of problems with the bit. Also, if she has had heavy use of the bit during her racing career, her jaw bone may have underlying damage such as periostitis (inflamed lining), exostoses (boney spurs) or sequestra (bone fragments) not obvious without an x-ray. If you are 100% certain her mouth is in perfect condition, then you need to try out some different bits.
Are you using the full cheek bit with keepers? If so, I would suggest removing the keepers, as the arms of the bit can press against the molars and upset some horses. Especially young horses who may have molars still erupting.
If you can, I would try a mullen mouth snaffle. It will eliminate any palate pain and squeezing of the lips. A straight bar will work more on the tongue, but may inhibit swallowing as it compresses the tongue. A ported mullen mouth will give more tongue room, but may put more pressure on the bars of the mouth. It would be interesting to see which she prefers (if any).
You could also try some alternative lozenge style bits. Generally a smaller lozenge is preferred, as a very large/wide lozenge may result in the joints of the bit lying over the bars of the mouth, which would be very uncomfortable.
Sprenger and Neue Schule bits offer a lozenge that is rotated at an angle so that the joints don't poke into the roof of the mouth. Hippus bits use a completely different type of hinge, designed to be smooth and anatomical - www.hippus.ch
Quite a few bits now offer a curved style mouthpiece, designed to fit the anatomy of the mouth better. Horse's mouths are not unlike our own. The palate is slightly arched and the tongue fills that arch. It makes sense to have a bit that reflects the arched shape.
Consideration must also be given to the type of rings on the bit. In my opinion a loose ring allows the bit to rotate and sit in the most comfortable position in the mouth. However, full cheeks are good for young horses with steering issues and they help to keep the bit centred and still in the mouth. A baucher could also be useful for you, because the cheek attachment prevents the joint of the bit from hanging down in the mouth, allowing the horse to get its tongue over. Some horses dislike having the bit hanging too low.
As for the thickness of the bit, a thin bit is more comfortable to wear when there's no rein pressure, no argument there. However, if she has a damaged mouth (bruising or boney changes on her mandible), then a thicker bit will be more comfortable when rein pressure is applied, and a softer material more desirable (rubber, plastic).
In summing up, first make 100% sure her mouth is healthy. Then experiment with different bits. Obviously bearing in mind you need soft steady hands. Good luck :)
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