In order to participate in the forums and post comments, you need to be registered on Horse Hero. Please make sure you are Registered and Logged In to get involved!
|
|
|
Kels
16 Oct 2008 15:20
|
My horse has become incredibly slow off my leg I was schooling the other day and could barely get canter! I know I should probably back my leg up with a stick but he sometimes gets a bit twitchy about leg aids and I don’t want him to start bucking! Anyone got any ideas?
|
16 Oct 2008 16:09
|
Use your body language to tell him what you want, more than you leg. Find the best moment for the up transition when he is engaged in his trot, soft and attentive, take a deep breath, raise you chest as far as you can so you really stretch yourself skywards as much as possible and lift him with your body language into canter. It works for me. I also have a rather idle horse!
|
Kels
17 Oct 2008 11:51
|
Thanks! I'll try that. though I must say I dont think he's ever engaged in his trot, soft and attentive' lol. maybe thats where I'm going wrong!
|
HK Beth
02 Dec 2008 15:39
|
I don't mean to be negative but if your horse knows you are not going to back up your aids with a sharp tap of the whip if he is ignoring you what incentive has he got to go off your first aid? Sounds like he is in control, not you and it's simply a case of he'll do it when he's good and ready!
Any trainer would have you following your first aid with a sharper aid then the whip if there is still no response. If you are having to always chase him perhaps check he is fit enough and has enough energy or have a blood test to check he is in tip top condition.
|
Meerkat
26 Dec 2008 22:03
|
What would you do with a horse that also takes no notice of a whip? Alas, I know very little of her history but I expect she has had a fair few whippings (talented but willful mare!) and so has switched off for her own protection. Now if she ignores my leg aid and I back up with sharp whip tap on bum that also gets ignored. As does a series of sharp whip aids which is what I have been advised to do. I've taken her training back to ground work to try and establish a better relationship with her but would be interested in what others think. Long reining?
|
Horsemad
26 Dec 2008 23:27
|
Hello Meerkat, before anyone can offer sensible suggestions, can you tell us a little more? How old is your mare? What breed is she? Is she fit and healthy or maybe a bit overweight? You say she is talented but willful, so how does the wilful aspect manifest itself – does she nap/buck…? What are her talents? What does she enjoy? Is she always slow off the leg, or is it only when you are doing things she doesn’t enjoy – for example schooling or hacking on her own?
|
Clare
16 Feb 2009 20:18
|
"My horse has become incredibly slow off my leg I was schooling the other day and could barely get canter! I know I should probably back my leg up with a stick but he sometimes gets a bit twitchy about leg aids and I don’t want him to start bucking! Anyone got any ideas? " How old is your horse? we had a problem last year with our 4 yr old ID x TB we took the line that she was not as mature as she looked nor was her mind set right. We turned her away in July last year and have just brought her back in to work, she is a different horse more active behind enabeling her to track up and move forwards freely. We ride her on a long low rein with as little interference as possible and gradually ride into the contact, allowing her to make her shape and find self carriage. So before you resort to the whip give the horse the benefit of your doubt.
|
Mandeigh
21 Aug 2009 10:31
|
Instead of whacking the horse to back up your aid....whack your boot; it gives enough of a noise that is usually enough to send them forward. Also make sure you take enough time to prepare you transitions and set the horse up for sucess. Good Luck.
|
bobinog
23 Aug 2009 08:58
|
Be careful you dont nag her with your leg- its so easy when they wont listen to the leg to keep at it but they very quickly learn to ignore that! When you use the leg use it once and well. Have the leg out and away from the horses side rather than the normal quietly being on the side and give her a good leg aid backed up with a vocal command (I use a kissy noise) and when the horse moves off then take the leg off its side. Its important that with horses which are not forward and off the leg to use the leg only when you really want a forward reaction rather than nagging away.
Get someone to video you riding her and scrutinise it well- its amazing how we are doing things with our body that our mind does not always register! also ensure that when you do get her forward you dont block her movement- forget the head position until you have free forward movement and allow the energy forward until she gets the idea.
|
Kylaky
13 Feb 2010 18:43
|
"My horse has become incredibly slow off my leg I was schooling the other day and could barely get canter! I know I should probably back my leg up with a stick but he sometimes gets a bit twitchy about leg aids and I don’t want him to start bucking! Anyone got any ideas? "
|
Kempshills
09 Apr 2010 12:38
|
I'm interested in this thread too. I have a similar problem but when I back my leg up with the whip I get a buck and because of a problem I have I can't sit to bucks- I can't afford to fall off either. Someone suggested spurs- is that a way to go? I do have to keep asking her every three or four strides because she will just stop or slow down. I know ideally I should just ride her through it but I'm not able to due to an injury.
|
Horse Hero Guru
09 Apr 2010 20:45
|
Hi Kempshills
I quite understand your fear of bucking or falling off – and so does your horse – she seems to have you well trained – you have to kick and drive her for every three or four strides she carries you. That means you get tired before she does and so she really doesn’t do too much work at all.
Now is the time to change that – and I don’t mean that you have to have a big fight - just that your mare has to learn that you pay the bills, provide the food and the comfort, and that she has to willingly do what you ask.
First, is she fit and healthy? Not too fat, not too thin? Does her tack fit properly? Have her teeth and back been checked recently?
Presuming there is no physical problem for her laziness, now consider what she is like when she is free in the field? I bet she doesn’t just walk a few strides at a time! And, more importantly, she is sensitive enough to feel a fly on her and twitch to get rid of it. This is how she should be when you are riding her.
Now, how does she behave when you are handling her? Does she walk smarty beside you and respectfully let you go through gateways first? Or does she drag along at her own sweet pace, barging you out the way if she wants to go through a gap? Does she getting cross or sullen when you groom ticklish bits or tack up? Does she put her ears back at you and grab at her food when you feed her, or does she wait politely while you give it to her? The answers to this tell you who is the dominant partner in your relationship. If this is the case I would strongly recommend sorting this out as soon as possible and suggest that you look at the Richard Maxwell videos on lunging the lazy horse and on loading and put the rope circling in action.
If the problem is only when under saddle then you need to check first that you are not riding in a way that is stopping her from moving on. Are you riding with too much contact in the reins? Your contact should be soft and steady – those reins go to her mouth, and the pressure you feel is the pressure she has on her lips and tongue, so is worse for her as her mouth is more sensitive than your hands! Are you relaxed in the saddle? If your back and hips are braced then you are riding with the hand brake on and it is no wonder that she doesn’t want to go.
Now to get her to respond to your aids. First, stop nagging with your legs – if you had someone continually drumming at your sides then you would learn to switch off too. Stop kicking. Spurs will not help the problem – they just mean that you are kicking with spikes, and she will ignore that too. You need to change her attitude. She should continue at the same pace, in the same direction until you tell her to change. This is easier for her if she is balanced and working forwards with the power coming from her quarters. Added to that, if her weight is on her quarters then she is far less likely to buck! If you are scared that she is going to buck with you then do all the training I suggest on an uphill slope as that will force her to carry weight on her quarters and stop her bucking.
So what do you do? When you want to increase the pace from, say, walk to trot, give a quick half halt (momentarily tighten your fingers and squeeze with your legs) then give a light aid to trot. If there is no response, repeat the request. If there is no clear response then demand a response – use your voice, a good kick and, if you are feeling brave, use your stick behind the saddle – she must jump forward. Don’t be surprised and yank the reins. Just let her keep going forward for at least five strides, bring her back to a walk and repeat the whole process. I promise you that it does not take long for her to realise that it is far easier to do what is asked when it is asked.
With regard to slowing down on you, don’t nag. As soon as you feel her slowing down underneath you, ask for a drop in pace – make it your decision, not hers – then immediately send her back in the pace your wanted.
Generally, never let her slop along on a loose rein – she must be paying attention all the time you are riding
You can do this and make riding far more pleasurable for both of you
|
Kempshills
13 Apr 2010 17:23
|
Hi HHG,
Thanks for replying so quickly. You have hit the nail on the head, she does have me well trained!
She is a tiny bit on the heavy side, she has lost 50Kg already and it's still a work in progress but due to her history I have had to take that very slowly (2 colic ops). She is healthy in herself, we've had a year without a bout, touch wood. Her teeth and back have not long been checked (she gets more healthcare than I do!)
She is a mare who expends the least amount possible. Sometimes the other horses can get a canter out of her but not often and not for long! Fields are for grazing! Yes she's got a good sensitivity response though, and she is good on the ground at moving away from a hand on her side when I want her to.
She's a pretty good girl at leading and is very attentive. She does get PMT I think as there are a couple of days per cycle where she is a nowty moo. She's mostly been a broodmare, so she's a wise old bird. Otherwise she's lovely. Maybe I do let her get away with a little more than I should. I shall have a look at the Robert Maxwell video though as it's something I can be doing when I have bad days and can't get on her back.
I may well be blocking her. She feels to me like her head is on the floor but she does like a reasonable contact. I've been told my hands are soft and giving, but at the moment I have to hold onto the breastplate so I don't jar her in the mouth if she moves in a way I'm not expecting. I'm not as relaxed as I should be due to pain, but the movement of riding her really helps my hips and I loosen up as the time goes on as long as I'm not on her too long.
I'll ditch the spurs for now and try your recommendations. Watch this space! And thank you.
|
shans mum
30 Apr 2010 17:22
|
Hi
Just a quick bit to add. When I come across this problem (horse slowing down or stopping after a few strides, or not going off my leg), I try to act really shocked with the horse, using my voice etc. Remember horses are brilliant at reading body langauge so if you expect them to act in a certain way ie be a bit ploddy then you can bet they will be! So if you can convince your self that today your horse will be nice and responsive it will help, and then you can do your oscar winning shocked act if she doesn't behave. I also find it really helps my riding if the last thing I do before I go to ride is to watch one of the videos on here of a really good rider!
|
markjnichols
11 Aug 2011 12:45
|
Have had the same problem my young stallion became very lazy, and have resorted to fixing problem from the ground up, long reining forward or upwards transitions mean one ask and he must react or a tap with the whip, transffered to riding and with a few bucks thrown in have the problem under control. And also being very carefull with not nagging the horse weith my legs and staying wide open in seat.
|
WannabeD
03 Sep 2011 21:42
|
I seem to be going through a phase of this with my 6yr old and being pretty hard on myself, its really nice to read that others are having the same prob. Would also like it if any of you could feed back with the light at the end of the tunnel...and how you got there!
He has never been the most fwd thinking warmblood but has always had a good attitude to work, however he has started being pretty reluctant to come in from the field, pretty much have had to drag him in some days and when I have been schooling recently he just won't stay in front of my leg. He will quite happily do transitions but once in trot he just slowly falls behind and no amount of squeezing, kicking, a tap from the whip will keep him there. My saddle was causing probs - slipping to side and I have since stopped using it and borrowing one that fits. He is checked over on a regular basis for muscular probs & has had a massage Jun, July & Aug and it was at the last check a couple of weeks ago that it seemed like the saddle was starting to effect him.
So it might be related to the saddle in some way but having now ruled that out..I'm really not sure how to deal with his current reluctance to go fwd. When I ask him to remain fwd in his trot, as soon as I put my leg on, he will try to canter however he does not go fwd into that pace but rather seems to use it as an evasion to working harder in the trot. Both instructors I have had lessons from recently see it as an evasion but have different suggestions for resolving - one says I must make him stay fwd in the canter, the other says to work through the hops into canter and keep repeating the question. Really need some help with this, keep beating myself up over it. Will watch the Richard Maxwell vid but any other advice appreciated! Thanks for raising the topic
|
Madelinski
18 Sep 2011 09:19
|
I once attended a lesson with a very well-known dressage trainer, with a friend who had a very lazy but talented horse. The first thing this trainer did was ask the horse to move forward - of course he got very little response and immediately gave him a good whack with the stick, most importantly leaving his mouth alone. I think he used a neck strap to hang on to, because the horse jumped forward and was immediately rewarded with a pat. He had to do it once or twice, but the effect was pretty instant and effective. This 'off the leg' idea seems to be a basic training method with a lot of dressage riders. Sounds easy but I guess you have to be brave in the first instance to do it! I can't see any other way apart from dangling a carrot in front of his face!
|
wonkeywoody
08 Feb 2012 18:11
|
My guy used to stand on his hind legs rather than 'go'! I also found that he tended to think 'whats in it for me'? 'Why should I' That sort of thing.
Rearing got to beyond dangerous! I learnt how to work him on the ground - not lunging or longreining cos he still didnt go forward but natural horsemanship style. He did protest periodically by standing up but as I was safe on the ground it didnt matter and was a waste of energy for him!
To get 'forwardness' it was a case of a light cue then a very 'mean it cue' the mean it cue was to slap the GROUND behind him 3 times! Never hitting him. You have to be consistent but it does work!
As far as the attitude "whats in it for me" I had to learnt not to expect too much too soon ie ask for a trot cicle and be satisfied and stop him after maybe 1/4 of the circle and reward him! It blows their minds a bit cos they are not expecting that! Slowly build it up. Do lots of different things and in little chunks. Once you have the 'respect' on the ground, it transfers to ridden :)
|
yoyolefro
12 Feb 2012 23:35
|
"when I back my leg up with the whip I get a buck and because of a problem I have I can't sit to bucks"
Use a long schooling whip, and instead of using it at your horses stifle, use it instead on its croup. This should gain the forward movement you want whilst encouraging the horse to keep its weight on its hind legs, and more engaged.... stopping the horse from bucking or even coming croup high.
|
chescar
04 Mar 2012 11:57
|
I'm having a similar problem with my 8 year old gelding.
He had never done any flat work schooling until I got him 7 months ago, He was very nappy in the school - as soon as we went in he would refuse to go forward, a flick of the whip and he would buck and rear. What I worked out was if I took him in the arena after a hack, he was lovely and forward thinking. Same if I lunged or long reined him first. But if I just took him straight in the school, he would not go farward without a 10 minute battle.
He is quick off the leg, but not if he has not hacked, or lunged or longreined first.
|
|
|
|
